I have a Centurion CS3000 Model CS-2000.  2 trips ago 30 minutes of running the air conditioner, the 20 amp circuit breaker on the tandem 15/20 amp circuit breaker tripped.  I found the tandem breaker very hot; too hot hold your finger on.

I turned off the 15 amp breaker which runs 12v converter and 115V 15 amp outlets and ran off the battery.  After an hour running the air, the breaker was not warm.  I than turned off the 20 amp breaker and ran the converter after an hour the breaker was not warm.  So having experience with a few breaker that would get hot and trip. I figured I would replace the tandem 15/20 amp breaker with 2 breakers a 15 and 20 amps since there was a vacant breaker slot.

I replaced the breakers:  This time out camping it was to cool for Air.  The nights went down to high 40’s.  I ran our small electric heater. Same problem? 

I open the distribution panel and to my surprise I found the 30 amp AC feed wire chard for the first few inichs that went to the Circuit Breaker bus.  What surprised me more after look at it better; Was that the 10 gage copper feed wire went to a copper lug, which was popped riveted with an aluminum rivet, which was riveted to an aluminum circuit breaker bus, which connected to copper contacts on the circuit breaker.  There was no sign of using the black aluminum corrosion inhibitor.

I thought after all those trailers burnt up during the 70’s from aluminum wire. Code required any time you bonded aluminum to none aluminum you were required to use the inhibitor.

With power off, the copper supply lug could be turned by hand and some of the classic crystals fell. So for our trip, as a temp fix, I shot a sheet metal screw into the CB bus griping the lug and we ran the propane furnace.

Solution??? Now I think I have a good fix: Run a 30 amp circuit breaker to the CB bus as the main with a new the 10 gage feed wire coming into the breaker, which would get rid of the lug. Run the tandem 15/20 amp breaker for the output off the bus same as the manufacture did. Use the corrosion inhibitor on the both CB connections after cleaning the contact areas on the bus.  (There is not much of a chance to salvage the lug or bonding one properly)

Or Maybe??? Scrap the CS-2000, which over charges my battery to 12.85 and pick up a WCF-35 stepping up the DC amp output from 25 to 35 and having a 3 stage battery charger.  "CORRECTION WFCO WF-8735"

But being someone who likes to fix everything, I though, I would get some thoughts if I should salvage the CS-2000?   

The CS-2000 converter is a crappy converter to start with, as many of the early converters were. I wouldn't waste a nickle on it myself. You would be so much farther ahead of the game with the WCF-35 converter. 

Having said all that, I would carefully check your ground circuit as well.

I take your suggestion to replace it with a lot of weight, because I think you normally try to fix things rather than replace them.

It's has good grounds.  It is an aluminum issue. I did not think anyone was using aluminum for 110V or greater other than for main service.  I know in two of the states I lived I have replaced the main service and they both require the black corrosion inhibitor be used with aluminum wire.

My understanding is the aluminum corrosion with the current flow develops very small crystals in a few years.  The crystals cause a very small gap between the conductors.  Current continues flow by jumping the very small gap (micro arcing) which develops the heat.

This is true, if it can be fixed and it has value, I will fix it. However, you can't fix the fact that the converter is old technology (that can damage your battery over time) and the newer converters are true 3-stage battery chargers.

Don't get me wrong, that old converter can probably be salvaged but at some point, I would ask myself, "Why bother?". It's kinda like that old saying..... "You can't fix stupid"...... and "today".... that converter truly is stupid.

Then again, sometimes a guy just wants to "Get by" and is willing to take the time rather than spend the $. That's OK too but one would be wise to unhook the battery from that converter while hooked to shore power and charger the battery with a proper "Smart" battery charger.

That kinda were my head is headed with the power converter.   I bought some circuit breakers, that ok since there the same  as the ones in my house and rental property.  I will use them.

But twice I was camping this year and spent an hour or so playing with it.  Do I want to nurse it along? I google the cs200 it does not look you can count on it much over 10 years.  Mine is 11 years old.

I don't think its the $'s, its more about can I fix it!  But do I want to be in BFE and have a crap out?     

My Centurion 3000, CS2000 just started having problems, after 9 years of working fine.  The fan doesn't run, one of the four 15A DC fuses causes the overload light to come on when it's inserted.  The end result is that I am having issues with my lights, water pump and furnace.

You mentioned the WCF-35 converter.  Is it difficult to replace my converter with that one?  Are the physical dimensions the same?  What about the wiring connections?

I would rather replace my unit than "fix" it.  I can google where to find a WCF-35 converter but if you know where there is a good buy, please let me know that as well.

Thanks!

Never heard of a "WCF-35" converter ... I'm guessing you mean a WFCO (World Friendship Company) converter.  The OP's CS2000 Centurion is rated @ 20 amps DC so there's no need to replace it with a 35 amp converter ... I'd suggest the WFCO 8725 (http://www.bestconverter.com/WFCO-8725P-Power-Center_p_50.html) which is not only a quality converter but also offers a proper 3-stage charging for maintaining deep cycle batteries.

Correction: WFCO WF-8735

I decided to get WF-8735 power converter, it was only about $10 more, 10 amps more, has a fan, an additional Circuit breaker slot and 1 or 2 more fuse slots. It's about the same size as the wf-8725, I belive the face might be a tad bit smaller. From what I see it is WFCO's best seller, which normaly means they invested more into quality because the payback is higher in reducing returns. 

I figured having 10 amp  surplus and fan would place my operational needs in the midle of the charts and never know when It would be nice to have an addition circuit breaker or 12v fuses.   My current CS2000 is rated for 25 amps and starcraft indicated in the owner manual not to run the 12V frig off the converter (which draws about 6 amps). So I figured cs2000 must be about maxed out with every thing running except the frig. No I not planning to run the frige off the converter, but it might be a nice option as a backup to AC coil. 

I just ordered it from www.makariosRV.com $119.00 including shiping.  Every one seem to want between 130 to 160 with shiping.  Its a compay in Indiana

From what I read it should be a very close fit.  I did not spend a lot of time seeing if it was a perfect fit, figured I could trim it out if needed.

PS: I bought a water pump about a month ago.  I pickup the SHURflo 2088-422-444 2.8 - 2.8 gl/per min fror about $70.  I also added a hose set from lowes and mounted on a foam computer mouse pad.  I',m geting old so maybe it's my hearing; but its very quite.

It appears that WFCO has changed their lineup. The 8725 and 8735 were basically clones. They even shared the same manual. But the current 8735 looks totally different than the one in my Niagara. Links for those interested:

8725 (http://www.wfcoelectronics.com/UI/Power-Centers-WFCO-WF-8725P.aspx?ptype=3&pid=4)
8735 (http://www.wfcoelectronics.com/UI/Power-Centers-WFCO-WF-8735P.aspx?ptype=3&pid=3)

I found the same info on the WFCO models.  I printed out the specs, brochure and manual.  After work, I'll measure the existing opening to see how it fits.

The 9800 series is a deck mounted unit.  Mine is mounted on a vertical wall under a seat so the 8700 series seems a better choice.  I also agree that the 25A version is okay - that's 5A more than I have now.  If the 8735 is only $10 more and the same size, I will consider that one too.

What about the wiring?  Should all the existing wire connections for the CS2000 have corresponding connections in the WFCO-8725?

Not the same size any more


yes, but you will probably find the way the wires are connected is different. For example my OEM Magnatek converter had connectors on the 12V wires and Fleetwood used corresponding connectors on the wiring of my Bayport. The 8725 had bare wires. The newer converters have more 12V circuits so you can spread out your load more. And use one to power some cigarette outlets.

It looks like it may be smaller.  I have the WF-8725 as 14.9 x 7.3 x 5 and the WF-8735 as 11.9 x 8 x 5. I figured in worst case I would run a 2 x 3/4 board around the current oppening, router off the conners, stain and finsh it to reduce the oppening.  It should look nice and you would have to be looking closley to see it was not OEM. 

Correction above sizes are finshed size. 
Cutout are:
 - WFCO 8725     10&7/16" L x 6&1/8" H x 3&3/4" D
 - WFCO 8735     10&7/16" L x 6&7/8" H x 3&3/4" D  (there was an indication that the 8735 one measurement might be 3/4 inch larger not sure about it?)

See link to specifications http://www.wfcoelectronics.com/Images/Products/OtherDocs/3-1.pdf (http://www.wfcoelectronics.com/Images/Products/OtherDocs/3-1.pdf)

Yes, I think it will take a little time to figure out the wires and planning how I want to configure the use of the fuses.  I would like to leave at lease one 12V DC fuse as a spare because you never know when a socket go's bad.  Since I'm going from 4 - 12v fuses to 6. I could use one for some mods I planning to add: 12v lighter socket for dry camping and a car radio, which would leave me one spare 12v fuse.
 
I think I will have a 30 AMP input main breaker and use my tandem 15/20 amp breaker to supply the 20 amp Air and 15 amp 115 v outlets and protect the converter. This will leave me one open CB slot. 

Not that it matters now that you've ordered a new WFCO converter but your Centruion CS2000 was rated for 20 amps @ 12 vdc, not 25.  Centurion never made a 25 amp version but rather a CS1200 12 amp, CS2000 20 amp, and CS3000 30 amp versions, the latter of which was never used in any popups that I know of.

My bad, I thought the starcfarf manual said I has a 25 amp converter.

The big advantage to having the higher amp converter (in a PU) comes in if you use a generator for charging your batteries.  Your bulk charge will be faster and generator run time shorter.

If you never use a generator to charge your batteries, there isn't a lot of upside to the higher amp converter. Although, for an extra $10....... I'd go for it too.

Dimensions that are far more important are the size of the cutout you'll need to fit the converter, which are as follows ...

WFCO 8725     10&7/16" L x 6&1/8" H x 3&3/4" D

WFCO 8735     10&7/16" L x 6&7/8" H x 3&3/4" D

That a good point, did not think about the generator.  I was mainly thinking more about additional fuses, circuit breaker and i would not be pushing the converter as hard.

Another thought about installation, if your current converter doesn't have a fan then you may need to think about setting some ducting for the WFCO. The WFCO exhausts either out the top or the back of the unit. That hot air needs a place to go. On my Bayport Fleetwood used a structurewood box to isolate the converter. So I glued plywood to it to form a duct that took the hot air to the side of the converter. There I drilled holes through the dinette front to allow the air out.

My CS2000 has a fan, it vented out the front, there is a small vent to the outside of the trailer behind the Power converter in the cabinet.

Oz, the installation manual has cutout sizes somewhat different than you posted above but I agree that you are right, that the cutout dimensions are more important.

Having said that, I could replace my unit with the -8725 without altering the hole size.  The -8735 would require me to make the hole bigger by 3/4" on one side.

Now...the fan question:  as gemini points out, the CS2000 has a fan that is visible on the front side.  But my question is this - does the fan EXHAUST air to the outside through the front cover, or does it INTAKE air from the outside and push it through the converter where it then exhausts somewhere else?

My unit is mounted underneath a seat cushion in an enclosed area where the water tanks are.  Since the -8725 does NOT exhaust (or intake) air through the front (meaning the inside of the camper), that means that it would both intake and exhaust air through the back of the unit, all within the enclosed area under the seat.

I'm not sure if this is a factor, but from a cooling perspective it would seem to be better to circulate air that was not already being heated in a confined area...

Now, having said all that...I can't honestly say that I have ever seen the fan on my converter running, which may mean that it never has or just that I never noticed it.

It would take a little extra work to make the existing hole bigger for the -8735, but if the fan runs any decent amount at all, it might be better to get that converter and either exhaust the air into the camper or draw it in from the camper (whichever way the fan turns).

Comments?

Go here (https://www.coastdistribution.com/Products.aspx), click on Our Catalog, click on the RV Catalog of your choice, click on Electrical, click on 067-082 Electrical.pdf and download the .pdf file, then scroll down to near the bottom of the page where you'll find the cutout dimensions for the various models of WFCO converters.

My WFCO 8725P intakes air underneath and discharges on top.  I cut some paneling out below the converter and installed an HVAC cold air return grill.  On top I cut out a hole in the paneling and bent a duct from some sheet metal to discharge out the front.  Without these mods the unit would be drawing and discharging all air inside the confines of the compartment.

Might not be necessary dependent on the size of the compartment but it makes me feel more confidant that I will receive reliable service.

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The Greatest of All Time (also known as GOAT) is a high-octane 2024 Indian Tamil-language action thriller starring Thalapathy Vijay in a dual role. Directed by Venkat Prabhu, the film is a major cinematic event, marking Vijay's penultimate role before his transition into full-time politics. Plot Overview

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The plot revolves around the Special Anti-Terrorist Squad (SATS), adding a layer of political and military intrigue to the story. 14. Record-Breaking Pre-Release Business

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With Vijay’s impending entry into full-time politics, GOAT is framed as one of his final cinematic outings, making it a "must-watch" event for his millions of followers.

Disclaimer: While MKVHub.com and similar sites provide information and updates, we always recommend supporting the film industry by watching movies in theaters or through official authorized streaming platforms.

Are you ready to witness the greatness? Which of these 20 facts surprised you the most?

The Greatest of All Time (2024) is a Tamil-language action thriller starring Vijay, which has received mixed reviews for its weak script, lengthy runtime, and sub-par de-aging effects. While criticized for narrative depth, the film is praised for Vijay’s dual performance, high-octane climax, and extensive fan service, making it a recommended watch for his fans. For a full overview, visit Wikipedia.

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The Ultimate Guide to GOAT: The Greatest of All Time (2024) Thalapathy Vijay’s 68th cinematic outing, The Greatest of All Time

(also known as GOAT), is an explosive action thriller that has taken the 2024 box office by storm. Directed by Venkat Prabhu and produced by AGS Entertainment, this high-octane spectacle features Vijay in a dual role, showcasing both his veteran presence and a de-aged younger version of himself. The Story: A Mission Reborn

The film follows Gandhi (played by Vijay), the former leader of an elite Special Anti-Terrorism Squad (SATS). Years after a botched mission in Thailand led to personal tragedy and his retirement, Gandhi is pulled back into the world of espionage when his past returns to haunt him. The narrative takes a dramatic turn in Moscow, where he encounters a younger lookalike—his son, Jeevan, whom he believed was dead. Cast and Crew Highlights

Lead Performance: Vijay delivers a "one-man army" show, effortlessly shifting between the seasoned, brooding Gandhi and the energetic, sinister Jeevan.

Supporting Ensemble: The film features a stellar lineup including Prashanth, Prabhu Deva, Sneha, Laila, and Meenakshi Chaudhary.

Direction & Music: Director Venkat Prabhu infuses his signature "masala" style with numerous fan tributes, while the soundtrack is composed by Yuvan Shankar Raja. Box Office and Global Reception

Global Success: As of late 2024, GOAT emerged as the highest-grossing Tamil film of the year, grossing between ₹440–460 crore worldwide.

Mixed Reviews: Critics praised the action sequences and Vijay’s performance but noted a lack of character depth and a predictable script.

Fan Service: The movie is packed with "Easter eggs," cameos (including a special appearance by Trisha Krishnan), and meta-references to Vijay's career. Where to Watch

"The Greatest of All Time" (GOAT), a 2024 Tamil-language action thriller starring Vijay and directed by Venkat Prabhu, began streaming on Netflix on October 3, 2024, following a September 5 theatrical release. While unauthorized sites like mkvhub.com are associated with illicit access, they pose serious risks, including malware infection, phishing, and legal repercussions. For secure viewing, watch the film on Netflix.

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Just bought the 8735 from AdventureRV.net for $110.  I'm pretty sure that I will have to increase the hole size on one side by 3/4", but that shouldn't be too difficult.  And that way I will know that I am venting the unit the best way I can.  I'm planning on using the CB's from my current unit, which are 15 and 20 amps, even though this new unit will be able to use larger ones.

Thanks to everyone here for helping!

I order mine on monday, it was 108 with shiping 118.  It shipped via ground, so I should see it next week. I agree it should be a good  fit with a little mod the current hole, and I have lots of space around the current one.  I'm waiting to see the back of the unit  The pictures look like there is no vents on the back and that it's cooling is all in the front?  If so, I will close up the vent hole on the side of my camper.

I think I will need to buy a 30 AMP main braker? Not sure about it because the way the product info was writen? But should be able to pick up one a lowes.

I limp it along for the next weekend out camping. But I would like to have it installed before our 9 day 1,400 mile trip trip up the west side of lake Michagan and into the UP at the end of june.

I don't think you have to change the CB if you don't want to. Since my CS2000 has a 15 and a 20 amp breaker now, I'm just going to use them. I don't need the extra power so why spend the money?

I agree, but I think there is a 30 amp main breaker needed. I could not figure out if it is supplied or you need to buy it.  At lowes, the square d HOM breaker should be less than $10 dollars. 

I'm planning to use the 15/20 amp breaker. 

Also; I am thinking to add another 15 amp breaker so I can have the (115v - 15 amp AC outlets) and the (power converter/battery charger) on a diffrent circuits. That additional breaker at lowes is less than $5.  My thoughts is; if one of those circutes has a problem, why have both on the same circuit breaker and have both not working.  I like to have as many work arounds for the field as I can.

The 20 amp breaker will still be used by the air conditioner.

The 30a main breaker isn't absolutely necessary since you will be protected by the 30a breaker in the campground pedestal. 

I installed a 30a main breaker in mine because I think it is a good idea. 

I sometimes use an adapter to plug into the 50a circuit in the campground pedestal.  My 30a main provides the protection for the system in that case because the wiring can't handle 50a.

Gemini, I like your idea of separating the 15A circuits. I'm trying to understand exactly what that means. If there was a problem with one of the AC outlets, for example, and you had to turn off the 15A CB, then the converter would stop charging the battery?

Is that right?

He meant if he has a short in an outlet, the outlet breaker would trip but the breaker to the converter will still be operational and he could still use his 12V circuit without fear of the battery going dead.

Conversely, if the converter shorts out (tripping that separate breaker), he will still have use of his 110V outlets. This would also allow him to plug in a battery charger to the outside outlet and keep the battery charged.

That's exactly how my TrailManor comes wired from the factory.....2, 15A breakers and 1, 20A breaker.

Yes, That is how my sratcraft Gemini is.  I have 2 breakers 1 is only for the air conditioner (20 amps) the other (15 amp) feed and protects the outlets and power converter/battery charger.

so if I trip that braker I lose all 115V outlets and frige, all 12v (lights, pump, furance will switch over to the battery) and battery charger. The only thing still running is the air conditioner and the lights, pump, furance which switched over to the battery.

I'm going to split the one 15 amp breaker into 2, 15 amp breakers; ( I will just need to add one 15 amp breaker)
 - 1st - 115v outlets including the frige,
 - 2nd - 115v supply to the 12v converter (lights, pump, furance and battery charger). Keep in mine if this breaker trips everything will run off the battery and I may not know it was triped until the battery is dead.  But I'm not sure if my curent 15 amp breaker trips, I would know until the DW tells me the Frige is getting warm.
 

Some breakers are available with a buzzer when the breaker trips.  [;)] However, I think you would catch on the first time that you turned on the water and the lights dimmed.

the wf-8735 power converter just arived.  The back is tighter than a drum.  There is no ventilation on the back. All ventilation is on the front. I think when I take out the cs-2000 I will seal the outside vent in that cabinet from the inside.

The only thing that I would have to figure out, then, is how to split off the battery charging circuit to the second 15A CB. I know that is easy for some of you but it's intimidating when you've never done it before.

Just one piece of advise........ make sure that the trailer is not plugged in and the battery is disconnected..... [:o)]

I hate to give advice on wiring. The DW when I'm working with wiring call me sparky.

If you are going to work on it unplug your shore power and disconnect the battery and tape off the battery wires to make sure if they get moved  an make connection.

I would recommend you get some help.  But here is some baics: With 115 V Ac, black most of the time is the hot wire, but the rule can change and don't count on the color.  White in normaly ground, same thing the rule can change.  Green or bare copper is normally chassis ground, it can also be called frame ground and earth ground, but the rule can change on green. 

Since your coming from a CS-2000 with one 15 amp breaker controlling 2 circuits.  What you most likely will find; the output from the 15 amp circuit breaker will have one wire because that is code, but somewhere in the unit the 2 circuits will come together using a wire nut.  One of the wires will be you 115v outlets the other will stay internal to the box to power the DC converter/charger.  The wire that goes external from the box is most likely your 115v outlets.  This will most likely be one of your new 15 amp circuits

In you new box you should find a lose black wire in the circuit breaker part of the box.  This will be you second 15 amp circuit breaker.  This wire might have a pigtail to be use if you are only going to have one 15 amp breaker, you would wire nut the 115v outlets to it.  If you are going to have 2 15 amp circuit breakers you need to cut off the pigtail.

you will have dc circuits that you will not be using, make sure you cut the strip end of the wires off, and tape the ends of the wire with good electrical tape, also don't put fuses in the unused dc circuits.  If you don't do a good job with these circuits, your wife will call you sparky!

Make sure you shore power cord colors make sense, and the wires go where you would expect them to go in the old unit,  before you disconnect them from the old unit.  If they do not make make sense note of how it was wired.

But I still think you should get someone with wiring experience to help you!  If you cross your wires, you could blow the new controller and they will not replace.

Unplugging shore power and disconnecting the battery is good for protecting yourself while working on it, but if you wire it up incorrectly, then hook up battery and shore, I guess you're likely to blow something...or pop the breaker.

gemini, thanks for the long write up.  I plan to label the wires BEFORE disconnecting them from the old unit just to make sure that I can reconnect later if needed.  Also, I plan to open both units BEFORE disconnecting and try to match up how I think the wires will be wired in the new unit, then label the wires in the new unit, again BEFORE disconnecting the old unit.  If I can match them all up and label them, then it should be easy to reconnect to the new unit.

I have a period of time coming up where I won't be camping for 3-4 weeks so I will have plenty of time to work on it.

Now, to add to my camper/electrical understanding....this is my understanding of the current CS2000 setup:

1.  Power to the converter comes from the shore power (AC) connection
2.  The shore power goes into the converter box, straight to the two breakers (15A & 20A)
3.  One wire comes out of the 15A breaker and physically runs to the AC outlets
4.  Another wire comes out of the 15A breaker and goes [somewhere] to power the converter itself [and also to charge the battery?]
5.  Because the converter powers the 12v DC items, there must be one or more wires that come out of the converter and physically run to the DC items like ceiling lights, water pump, etc.
6.  A third wire from the shore cable goes to the 20A breaker to power the air conditioner

This is my understanding of the future WFCO-8735 setup:

1.  Power to the converter comes from the shore power (AC) connection
2.  The shore power goes into the converter box, straight to three breakers (2 15A & 1 20A)
3.  One wire comes out of a 15A breaker and physically runs to the AC outlets
4.  Another wire comes out of the second 15A breaker and goes [somewhere] to power the converter itself [and also to charge the battery?]
5.  Because the converter powers the 12v DC items, there must be one or more wires that come out of the converter and physically run to the DC items like ceiling lights, water pump, etc.
6.  A third wire from the shore cable goes to the 20A breaker to power the air conditioner

Questions:

1.  How does the second (extra) 15A breaker get hooked up to the same shore cable?  Actually, it's probably the same way that the 15A and 20A breakers are connected now.

So the main difference is:
1.  Hooking up the second 15A CB to shore power
2.  Moving the wire that powers the converter and battery charging circuit from the current 15A CB to the new CB

How much of that did I get wrong?  Be nice.   [:)]

The converter really is 2 separate devices in one package.

The first device is nothing more than a "Power distribution panel" (top half of pic #1).

The second device is nothing more than a "Battery Charger" (bottom half of pic #1).

The power distribution panel receives AC power through the power cord and that power goes to a "Bus bar". There can be any # of CBs on the bus bar. In this case, there are 3. The AC current is then distributed to the different areas that you mentioned.

The CB that send AC to the "Converter" (battery charger) side of the system goes to a printed circuit board with a lot of diodes, filters, resistors etc. The 110V AC is there "Converted" to 12V DC....... The 12V DC current then goes to another bus bar where there are 12V fuses located that power is distributed (through fuses) to different areas of the camper to do different 12V jobs. One of those areas is the camper battery. What happens with the in-coming and out-going power to that particular circuit is managed by the main circuit panel and is the main function of the converter.

It really isn't any more complicated than that. Think of it as 2 separate and distinct devices. In fact, on my camper, I removed the "Converter part of the "Converter" and through it in the trash (leaving the power distribution part of the converter). I then installed a new "converter" in a completely different part of the camper. I merely ran the AC line from the CB on the now "Distribution panel" to the front of the camper, which powers the converter and hooked my battery to the converter. I then have a fused 12V line attached to the battery/converter line and going back to the "distribution panel" to the fuse bus bar that powers the 12V side of the camper.

Here is my panel with the 12V converter still in place on the bottom half of the panel:
The 110V can be seen on the left side (black & white wires).
On the right side, you see the blue (12v out) wire going to the 12V fuse bus. The red wire going to the battery and the white ground wire..... that's it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/ConverterInstall001.jpg)

I ripped out the 12V "Converter portion:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/ConverterInstall006.jpg)

Then I installed a new 45A converter only in it's place:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/ConverterInstall011.jpg)

I later decided to move the "Converter" to a different place.... it's the small box on the right:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/ConverterInstall013.jpg)

So, you see, they really are 2 very separate and distinct devices packaged in one box.

These pics have nothing to do with your particular converters. They are only intended to help lay out the function of any converter. The converter pictured clearly lays out the separation of the 2 devices and that's why I posted them. There is far too much "Mystique" in the converter world. In reality, a "converter" is nothing more than a power distribution panel and a battery charger. Once one comes to grips with that reality, it greatly simplifies the installation of any converter.......... or not.... :-\

Corrections to you assumptions:

CS2000
1.  Power to the converter comes from the shore power (AC) connection
2.  The shore power goes into the converter box, straight to a lug on the circuit breaker distribution bus the bus feeds  (15A & 1 20A)
3.  One wire comes out of a 15A breaker and physically gos to a wire nut that ties the AC outlets wire and a wire to the power the converter itself to the 15 amp breaker
5.  Because the converter powers the 12v DC items, there must be one or more wires that come out of the converter and physically run to the DC items like ceiling lights, water pump, etc. there will be as many wires as fuse positions, plus a battery wire and 1 or 2 ground wires
6.  the 20A breaker to power the air conditioner is powered off the circuit breaker distribution bus


This is my understanding of the future WFCO-8735 setup:

1.  Power to the converter comes from the shore power (AC) connection
2.  The shore power goes into the converter box, straight into the 30 amp breaker lug (main) which feeds the the circuit breaker distribution bus that the  2 15A amd 1 20 amp will will be connected to
3.  One wire comes out of a 15A breaker and physically runs to the AC outlets
4.  Another wire comes out of the second 15A breaker and goes [somewhere] to power the converter itself [and also to charge the battery?] you should find a black wire in the circuit breaker part of the box that is not terminated anywhere.  It might have a pig tail on it, if using 2 15A breakers, cut off the pigtail
5.  Because the converter powers the 12v DC items, there must be one or more wires that come out of the converter and physically run to the DC items like ceiling lights, water pump, etc. There will be 8 or nine wires one for each fuse position, which you want to connect youy labeled wires to and use the same amp fuse that was used in the CS2000, there will be a battery wire and 1 or 2 ground wires.  Any unused dc circuits you should cut off the striped ends and tape them well with good electral tape, I would not put fuses in those positions. But if the red led light up I would put low amp fuses in them to keep the leds off
6.  20A breaker to power the air conditioner is feed from the circuit breaker distribution bus


Questions:

look at above changes in your assumptions, I think the question will be answered.

Also the 115 outlets and the shore power each will have 2 additional wires. Ground (normaly white) and frame ground (normaly bare copper or green)  they need to be connected inside the box in the ciruit breaker area to the ground bus and the frame ground bus. 

Note: Color of wires may not follow the standard use colors.  So pay attention when you disassemble the old box to make sure you understand how a wire was used and label it if it does not follow the standard use of colors.

Also: you need to knock out some holes in the back of the box.  Because the box is plastic, I would score the holes with a knife to make sure you don't break the box.  You will need some cable clamps for the shore power, aic condinitor, and 115V outlet wire to make sure they can not be pulled out of the box.

If your CS2000 does not have a frame ground wire (bare copper or green) running to the frame of the trailer, I would add one to the frame of the trailer to the frame gound bus in the ciruit breaker compartment

Okay, it looks to me like you both are saying the same thing, which is good.  I've printed out the manual already, and I will print out this thread before I get started.

Thanks!

Just as an FYI to anyone thinking about the same project; save yourself a heap of time and frustration and talk to Randy at http://www.bestconverter.com/ (http://www.bestconverter.com/)
Great folks to work with and they seen it all and done it all and are a great source for any thing converter. They know what fits what and if there is a direct replacement without any modifying.

Mike, when you finish installing the converter, could you make some notes with how the installinon went, problems, etc.. and add it to this post.  It might be helpfull for other people in the futrue.   

Wavery, knock out job with those photos and instructions.  It took me a long time to finsh typing my responce and you must have reply while I was typing.  If I would have seen your responce, I would have stoped typing.

We are saying the same thing. I was just trying to take the "Boogie-man" out of it by applying some visual and understanding so that you (and others) are less concerned about damaging something.

There really isn't a reason to get "Tied into" buying a direct replacement converter. Once one understands what they do, it opens up the door to become creative.

I wanted a high-tech 45A converter for my camper because I used to use the generator for battery charging and I wanted the best bang for the $ to reduce generator run time and also be able to leave my camper plugged in at home full time. After much research I decided on this PROGRESSIVE DYNAMICS PD9245 RV POWER CONVERTER CHARGER:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROGRESSIVE-DYNAMICS-PD9245-RV-POWER-CONVERTER-CHARGER-/150809309515?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories&hash=item231cef714b&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROGRESSIVE-DYNAMICS-PD9245-RV-POWER-CONVERTER-CHARGER-/150809309515?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories&hash=item231cef714b&vxp=mtr)

The new converter is in and I will print out this thread now.  I hope to begin work on it this weekend.

I got mine installed.  All went well,
 
 - had to make my cutout hole about 1 inch higher

 - very good pick on going from cs-2000 (20 amp) to wf-8735 (35 amp), it is so under used, you have to work at loading it up to have the fan come on.

 - Also, we use to unplug the propane sensor fuse when we lowered the unit to stop the battery drain.  When I did this the led lite and supplied 3.3 volts through the led circuit to the propane sensor.  So I'm looking at a battery kill switch.

 - had one area of concern until I figured it out: tested the fuse leds, by removing fuses.  They don't come on unless there is a load. had to turn on the lights, etc

Also: my old unit had 3 wire running to one fuse.  2 were lights (4 lights), 1 was the pump and toilet.  I took the pump and toilet and put it on its own fuse.  Figured, maybe it will reduce the lights dimming when the pump comes on.  Have not tested 

I ended up with 1 unused 12v fuse  that can be loaded with 30 amps.  room for growth

Good job. You'll be much happier with that converter and your batteries will last longer and charge faster. You will be able to leave the camper plugged in 24/7, if you have an outlet available.

Thanks for your advice on switching it out, pushed over to replacing it vs trying to keep the cs2000 runing.

I spent the weekend fixing things and doing maintenance on this new to us camper. I'm now into to the list of mods we want.   Headed out next weekend for for our big trip this year.  10 days 1,400 mile and 4 sp's up the east side of lake michigan into the up.   Felling real good about the pup.  

Well, I finally got around to working on mine.  I've decided to sell my camper so I figured I'd better get on the ball and fix what I could.

I started my process by labelling all the wires that went into the converter and where all the wires terminated in the converter.  This helped immensely down the road.

I also had decided to put in the extra circuit so that I could separate the AC and DC circuits.

When I started to reconnect the shore wires, I ran into the first problem.  I could not figure out how to connect the hot wire!  In the CS2000 the hot wire connected directly to a "distribution of bus bar" (not sure of the correct name).  The circuit breakers connected directly to this bar and the output came from the screw terminal of the CB.

In the WFCO 8735 there is no connection to the "bar" to connect the shore hot wire to!  After some sitting, looking and thinking it through, I realized that the hot wire connects to what the WFCO is calling the "main breaker".  When this breaker is on, then it connects power to the "bar".

Next, reconnecting all the wires that I labelled, I realized that the four DC circuits of the CS2000 could be connected to any of the circuits of the WFCO, it really didn't matter which and the colored wires were different anyway.  I elected to keep them in the same order...so the wire that was in the #1 DC slot I connected to the #1 DC slot of the WFCO...just to keep them in the same order.

Because the WFCO had six wires, two are not being used.  While all this may seem quite simple, it took me a "little bit longer" to figure it out than it is for me to type it here!

I connected the AC up as well.  Thank goodness I labelled all the wires.  That helped a lot just to understand how it was set up.

The final issue was this - after I connected all the DC up, and with the battery unhooked, I checked the voltage at each fuse per the installation manual.  Everyone was perfect.  Then I turned off the DC breaker, hooked up the battery, came back inside...and when I turned the breaker back on, the fuse for the battery charging circuit immediately blew!  What the .....

The only idea I could come up with was that the battery voltage was really low - 5V.  I thought that maybe...just maybe...because the voltage was so low that it immediately took a large charging current that exceeded the 15A fuse.  I really didn't know if that was right but it was the only thing I could think of.

So I used an external connection to an external battery charger and did a deep cycle recharge overnight.  The next day I tried the same steps again and it worked perfectly.  The fuse did not blow and the battery shows a charging voltage.

So voila!  It is done.  New charger with better separation of circuits and a better charger for the battery.  I can't thank all of you enough for all your help.  I did print out this entire thread, as I said back on page 3 :) and used it during the entire process.

Now....My air conditioner has not worked for the first time this summer.  I'm trying to figure out if I can fix that myself or have to take it somewhere to get it fixed.  I am going to start a new thread on that.

As soon as I get that fixed, I'll put it up for sale and move on to the next phase of life!

Thanks again!

Sound like you got it.   You are getting voltage to the AC unit?

Where would I measure that?  I have the schematics.  My dad's first thought was that it was the capacitor.  I talked to an RV service center yesterday.  They want $105/hr.

It would be nice if I could do it myself.  I'm pretty sure the fan is not turning.  They said something about foreign material might be lodged in it and preventing it from turning.  If that's right, other parts should work, right?  This unit has a heater as well, which I'm guessing does not use the compressor but does use the fan.

If the heater element gets hot, for example, then I can conclude that that part of the circuit is okay.

I've moved to my other thread which was already started for the A/C...please reply there.

If you installed a WFCO8735 it has an output of 35 amp so the wire to the battery should be fused at 40 amp, not 15.  Of course you need wire capable of 40 amp which would be 8 gauge.  If not 8 gauge then the fuse should be for the wire rating.  Wire gauge of 14 would take a 15 amp fuse.

For the battery charge line you should have it fused at 20 or 30 amps.   If you take a dead battery you will find for a shourt period they 20+ amps.   When i installed the 8735 my fusesat my battery were 30 amps and I fused the battery charge line at the converter to 30 AMPs.  I would try steping up my fuse to 20 amps and if that does not work 30 amps.  Check your wire gauge. 

Wire gauge with not noticible diffrence in temp  with ampage draw:
 - 15 Amps  14 gauge
 - 20 Amps  20 gauge
 - 30 Amps  30 gauge

What??????? this makes absolutely no sense..... :-\

More like;
15 amps = 14 gauge
20 amps = 12 gauge
30 amps = 10 gauge
40 amps = 8 gauge

These are minimums.  When talking DC amperage and battery charging it is always preferable to go one size larger than the minimum to eliminate voltage drop and speed charging.

More like;
15 amps = 14 gauge
20 amps = 12 gauge
30 amps = 10 gauge
40 amps = 8 gauge

These are minimums.  When talking DC amperage and battery charging it is always preferable to go one size larger than the minimum to eliminate voltage drop and speed charging.

^ ^ This is correct ^ ^

Sorry, I went into space.

What I'm trying to communicate is: wire size and amps we always think of the rating of national elect code book, which does not reflect the amp wire gauge apability.  So an example is a 14 gage wire we always think of is 15 amps, but in reality it’s Maximum amps for chassis wiring is around 32 amps, 12 gage wire we think of as rated at 20 amps but the max amp rating is around 40 amps .  The different in the rating is there would be a noticeable change in temperature of the wire.   Then there is a third rating of wire which is what elect company uses for overhead power line, they will get extremely hot and normally they do not have insulations.

Example of using maximum amps for chassis wiring would be on some appliances.  I know I have used in the past are; vacuum cleaners that if used for a while we feel the power cord is slightly warm.  Under the standard code system the wire is most likely to small because there is a noticeable change in the temperature.   

So as I think of it, if I have a wire coming from a battery charger that is 12 gage.  We all think of it as 20 amps, but the true rating of the wire maximum amps chassis wiring is over 40 amps but one you go over 20 amps you will feel changes in the wire temperature.

My experience when I have charged very depleted batteries with a charger capable of delivering 40 + amps.  It always seems that for the first minute, I might see a spike into the 20+ amps, but it quickly drops to the 6-10 amps and very slowly continues drops.  So if for a short time I draw a little more amps and the wire heats up a little and gets warm, but in a minute or two the amp draw drops, I’m not concern about it.

The second argument is line resistance or ohms, which turns in to line voltage drop.  I assume a 10 ft. wire for my trailer:  12 gage copper wire is going to be 0.1558 ohm s,  10 gage wire is going be0.09989 ohms,  8 gage wire is going to be 0.06282 ohms. 

 If you use ohms law with the worst resistance 0.1558 ohms at 12v.  If my math is right, the current path is capable of 77 amps, which with a 12 gage wire I think the wire would melt.   So any of these wires line resistance is far below what we need.   

Now in my case the manufacture has an 8 gage wire from my battery to the charger and had a 20 amp fuse on the charger charge line and a 30 amp fuse on the battery to trailer and charge line, which far exceeds what I need if I was a cheap engineer.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a beliver in over doing it. But at the same time I think a 12 gage wire with 30 amp fuses would work fine if my assumption on the amp/druation draw of charging is correct.   

So many errors in what Tenttrailer posted.


12AWG wire would be 1.619 ohms/1000ft. So a 10ft run would be 0.016 ohms.

Current ratings depend on the wire/insulation used, ambient temperature, and how many wires are bundled together.

At 30*C, NEC says 25A for a single 12AWG wire, but if you bundle 3 together (like in a power cord or Romax) then it's only safe for 20A. Not clear what insulation/rating that is for though, but probably safe for most primary wire on the market.

For that 10ft of 12AWG wire at 25A the voltage drop from the wire would be 0.4V. That wouldn't affect the bulk charging mode, and when you get to the later, top off charging the currents are much lower anyway.

 

  I don't know near enough to dispute anything you say, but waiting 5 years to say somebody is wrong? [:D]